Billie Eilish’s new album Hit Me Hard and Soft has been hailed by critics as her best album yet. She describes it as an “album-ass album”, meant to be listened to in its entirety, but it’s also provocative: it takes on fame and body-shaming ("People say I look happy just because I got skinny") and women she wants to please (“I could eat that girl for lunch, she dances on my tongue”). So what do we think? Lilah is joined by two experts, the FT’s music writer Arwa Haider and US media business correspondent Anna Nicolaou, to discuss the role Billie plays in our pop pantheon.

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We love hearing from you. Lilah is on Instagram @lilahrap. We’re on X @lifeandartpod and on email at lifeandart@ft.com. We are grateful for reviews on Apple and Spotify. And please share this episode with your friends!

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Links (all FT links get you past the paywall):

– The FT’s four-star review of Hit Me Hard and Soft, by Ludo Hunter-Tilney: https://on.ft.com/4bP4rWH

– Arwa’s latest review is of the album A La Sala by Khruangbin, a mash-up of “Iranian rock, Jamaican dub and Thai folk”: https://on.ft.com/4dPdFnN

– For more from Anna, listen to our recent episode ‘Why Olivia Rodrigo might be our last pop star’. Search where you get your podcasts or click here

– Arwa is on X @arwahaider. Anna is @annaknicolaou

More or less:

– Arwa wants more Arabic diaspora voices. She recommends British-Lebanese DJ Salia (here’s Habibi Riddim), Lebanese singer songwriter Yasmine Hamdan and Palestinian-Canadian artist Nemahsis

– Lilah wants to see people use more stuff in your home: read your books, eat your food, wear your clothes. The book she picked up, which she recommends, is called Subway Lives: 24 Hours in the Life of the New York City Subway, by Jim Dwyer

– Anna wants less social media, especially around oat milk bashing.

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Special FT subscription offers for Life and Art podcast listeners, from 50% off a digital subscription to a $1/£1/€1 trial, are here: http://ft.com/lifeandart

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Original music by Metaphor Music. Mixing and sound design by Breen Turner and Sam Giovinco. Clips this week are courtesy of Interscope

Read a transcript of this episode on FT.com

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Billie Eilish still doesn’t care, and it’s still working

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